LiveBlog for Monday, November 16, 2009

rudepunditThe Rude Pundit (Lee Papa) calls in at 6:30am Pacific to talk about moving Gitmo detainees to New York, and the media’s shoddy treatment of women.

mmfaEric Boehlert, Senior Fellow at Media Matters for America, calls in at 7:05am Pacific to co-host Right Wing World.

Joe Decker, founder of GodHatesShrimp.com, calls in at 8:30am Pacific to talk about how ridiculous religious arguments against homosexuality are.

• Politely but firmly pressing for greater freedoms on China’s own turf, President Obama spoke in Shanghai this morning against censorship, saying tough criticisms of political leaders should be allowed and the free flow of information on the internet “should be encouraged.”

• While President Obama’s decision about sending more troops to Afghanistan is primarily a military one, it also has substantial budget implications that are adding pressure to limit the commitment. Governmental estimates place the cost of adding 40,000 troops at $40 billion to $54 billion a year.

Today’s Commerce Department report on October retail sales is likely to set the tone for the rest of the week on Wall Street. Economists polled by Reuters predict retail sales rose 0.8 percent in October after at 1.5 percent drop in September. Stronger consumer spending is needed for any rebound, and disappointment is likely to send stocks falling today.

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My nominee for sponsor of the "Deliverance" call in crowd.

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#210: Do the Guantanamo detainees fit into either of those categories?

And "detained for the duration" of an undeclared war means, well, forever.

Sorry, late as usual! Bye bloggoes, wish I could quit you!

>> Robotrix says:
>> That there’s plenty of instances where the Bible doesn’t give damn about “life starts at conception”.

I'm not sure -- way back then -- that they had a clear understanding of what conception was or when exactly it took place. They had some understanding of "seed" but did they know about "egg"? I've never read anything on this, specifically.

Anyway, it's no surprise that the bible is a little squishy on the subject.

You still here PeterW?

I'm curious -- you write like a person who has had a lot of church/bible training (as have I).

What's your deal?

220 - my point was to provide the quotes (including the one that someone else brought up just so people can see what they were talking about).

That there's plenty of instances where the Bible doesn't give damn about "life starts at conception".

PeterW,

Most mainstream bible scholars would say that the OT laws about homosexuality had to do with family structures in a 3000+ year old tribal society.

It's all irrelevant for today and -- yes -- God does not care who love whom, as long as there are no victims.

#220, and it's a civil fine only because the miscarriage deprived the husband of a potential heir.

Famous last word "No one could possibly imagine..."

Have a great day, everyone!

Robotrix,

I'm not exactly sure of your point.

The Exodus 21 verse is the closest the bible comes to directly forbidding abortion. But, interestingly, the penalty is civil, and different than murder.

Why would any infinite creator of the universe care about which hole, or the gender of the person possessing said hole, one sticks one's wee wee in?

Seriously. These people's god sounds like a nosy small-town neighbor, not a transcendent all-father of the universe.

Jesus didn't write Romans. Steph and the Mooks are reaching too far on this one.

um, hummm - french-frieed, pertatoed un-nnatrruall - hmm, hmmm

199 - From Freedom From Religion.org - http://ffrf.org/nontracts/abortion.php

Kings 8:12 dash their children, and rip up their women with child.
Kings 15:16 all the women therein that were with child he ripped up.

Hosea 13:16 their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up

Isaiah 13:18 They shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.

And the thing about causing miscarrages...

"If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

"And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth . . ."--Ex. 21:22-25

Wasn't Romans written by Paul?

So next time I smoke, I can claim I'm stoning myself for my many biblical sins. Nice.

god is gay, btw, being the essence of everything and all. the rest is religion.

Everybody must get stoned!

umm - substance abuse? like Palin's progenies' meth addictions?

>> PJ Squeezy Louise Hussein McFlavin says:
>> #150: I have to agree with PeterW, I don’t think military trials will measure up to Nuremberg standards

Aren't there two military systems?

One is INTERNAL for our own US soldiers.

The second is for potential POWs.

The POW-style of hearing is a very basic type hearing only to weed-out accidental detention of civilians.

But POWs are supposedly "detained for the duration" rather than punished -- that's why they have more rights.

#202, that, and the Military Commissions Act sets out rules for trial that are utterly abhorrent. Without new governing legislation, the military tribunals (which are at risk of being overturned by appealate courts because of their deficiencies) are a travesty.

ooh- Jay is one mean mofo

will we get behind-the-scenes chatter on the Stephstream?

what's the Tao up to, Steph?

PeterW,

Most mainstream theologians would probably agree with you -- that Jesus was probably trying to reform the law rather ending it.

When the early church took root in the "gentiles" rather than the Jews, Paul and the other church teachers had to develop a theology that essentially ended the Jewish laws.

#150: I have to agree with PeterW, I don't think military trials will measure up to Nuremberg standards (negociated by the four victorious powers, IIRC). Especially since some Guantanamo defenders have quit due to not being able to do their jobs - lack of access to evidence, etc. And as for it being on TV, even if that's allowed I suspect they'll turn off the feed (Judge Ito style) when the real dirt gets dished. Chain of command and all that...

:D :lol:

SPAR!

>> Robotrix says:
>> 192 – In fact, in “Kings” it tells you to be sure that you kill the unborn of your enemy in the womb…

I think I remember that. But the war-mongering evangelicals would say this is war, so it is OK.

(Just to be clear -- NOT ME, saying that. I'm a pacifist.)

#194, Jesus himself uses "fulfill" immediately after disclaiming that he was changing any small marks in it (presumably referring to diacriticals).

Did Ted Haggard take his personal struggles in both hands?

#192, the closest is that if someone causes a miscarriage by violence to a woman, one owes money to her husband, or somesuch.

192 - In fact, in "Kings" it tells you to be sure that you kill the unborn of your enemy in the womb...

PeterW,

It's more Paul and Luke than Jesus himself.

BTW, they don't say the Old Testament was invalidated but, instead, "fulfilled."

I actually sort-of agree with this.

Leave the evangelicals alone. You're lucky they even go crazy on your ass you bastiges.

Abortion is another issue -- there is no clear mention, in any testament, about abortion.

Where does Jesus render the old Mosaic law invalid? Last I checked, he said that he was not there to change one tiny jot of it.

Evangelicals don't weight the gospels differently from Paul. So, the "Jesus never mentioned homosexuality" doesn't phase them much, either.

Mama, so you love seafood and gays. But the gays don't really appreciate being tossed into the pot of boiling water, Mama.

Catfish are NOT OK, Producer Chris. No scales.

The shrimp argument doesn't hold much weight with evangelicals -- they have an answer for this.

The divorce issue has more weight.

Oh boy, price of lobsta's gonna go down!

I'm bettin' we'll hear an announcement from Steph on the Lar tonite. Just bettin'.

#183, there is some irony that pr0n is both the cause of, and the solution to, beauty queen disgrace.

178 - Well...be fair to Vanessa Williams. Although she was in "Eraser" with Ah-nuld

Why is it that the right wing punditry is all college dropouts and convicted felons (G. Gordon, Ollie)?

I guess I missed the big announcement. So in NYC will Steph be living in an apartment? Underneath Keith O.? Is this just so she can stay up after stupid o'clock?