LiveBlog for Monday, August 24, 2009

rudepunditThe Rude Pundit (Lee Papa) calls in at 6:30am Pacific for more rudeness about Tom Ridge and the health care reform protests.

begala• CNN’s Paul Begala calls in at 7:05am Pacific to talk about health care reform, Libya, and the President’s vacation.

The Justice Department’s ethics office has recommended reversing the Bush administration and reopening nearly a dozen prisoner-abuse cases, potentially exposing CIA employees and contractors to prosecution for brutal treatment of terrorism suspects.

• Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT), the independent senator counted on by Dems in the health care debate, showed signs of wavering yesterday when he urged President Obama to postpone many of his initiatives because of the economic downturn.

The First Family settled in yesterday for their vacation on Martha’s Vineyard not long after Hurricane Bill scampered away, leaving behind big waves and heavy rip currents for the Obamas.

The Obama administration expects the federal deficit over the next decade to be $2 trillion bigger than previously estimated, White House officials said Friday, a setback for a president already facing a Congress and public wary over spending.

Comments have been disabled for this post.
Sort: Newest | Oldest

#386; a coda. The total workforce in 2007, the date of Tony's cite, was 154,287,000. Of which 61% or 45 million had 401ks higher than $10k.

That is, 27,450,00 American workers had 401ks of $10k or more at the height of the bubble.

This is 17.7% of the total workforce.

Negligible.

#384; I confessed that my memory of the numbers might be old - and happily accept the correction. But your cite doesn't claim what you say it claims, and my statement (and the semtiment behind it) is still true. Because while 39% of 401k balances are below $10k, most workers' 401k balance is $0; because they're not enrolled, eligible, or are in a defined benefit pension.

I said: "The number of people with more than $5k in their 401k or equivalent plan is negligible." This statement is absolutely true. People not enrolled in a 401k at all are, last I checked, still people. Though neoliberals do tend to forget that. Only 45 million workers are enrolled in 401ks at all - the non-farm labor force is more than twice that.

So my statement that you have no clue how most people live stands.

It *is* the "This little piggie went to market" game!

The last little piggie went wee-wee-wee all the way home
and the baby gets tickled during that line.

Then you repeat it.

And after you've repeated it a couple of times, the baby's
all wee-wee'd up anticipating the next tickling!

Hummfh - Gen X don't know how much it don't know!

Buh Bye, Bloggoes! :mrgreen:

Peter, your statement was that the number of people who have 401k balances over $5,000 is negligible. That is inaccurate. Don't say that if someone cares about a 401k or has one that's over $5,000 they are out of touch. If you say things like that, you are doing the same thing as Sarah Palin does with her death panels nonsense.

That's not cool, period. It doesn't matter what your political views are. Using incorrect information to promote a viewpoint is wrong.

On that note, I hope everyone has a good day.

#356 - okay, the numbers I've read may be a few years old, before the bubble. Looking at your source, the median 401k was, as of 2007 in the $18k range (39% below $10k). And that's end of 2007 - near the peak of the bubble. Talk about dishonest citations! It's far less than that now.

Congratulations. Borrow what's left of that 2007 median $18k against it for a couple semesters of college, or for part of a home down payment. But a serious source of wealth even for those workers eligible for them; nor a source of retirement, since as your source cites the median age is 44.

The difference between me and you, El Cid, is that I don't really care about changing the world. I just want to enjoy my life as much as I can. Changing the world and overthrowing the ruling class is something with a low probability of success and without much benefit for me. So I don't bother with it.

378: and mark.... we're not laffing AT you; we're laffing TOWARD you.

373 thanks Cid
better version of what I was trying to say somewhere back there

have a great afternoon everyone look forward to teasing you
fighting with you but especially laughing with you

356....the S&P 500 closed at 1,468. Right now it's at 1,033. Drop the numbers of the 401ks by 40 percent and you STILL have the majority of them over $5,000. Drop the median by 40 percent and you drop that median from $18,492 to around $12,000.

I don't care what your political leanings are, you cannot say things that are not true to bolster your argument. It simply is not true that the number of people with a 401k balance of over $5,000 is negligible, period.

324---I disagree. I think what makes America unique among nations is that we were pretty much founded by the middle class. People got land and ran farms when they got here. They fed themselves off the farm---a middle class business---and sold the excess.

Then as the population grew and people started to specialize and make stuff to sell, small businesses sprang up and those business owners, for the most part, were middle class.

Even the doctors and dentists and lawyers were middle class to start with. They were all paid in cash or in goods through the barter system. You can't get rich as a doctor if you're serving middle class farmers and blacksmiths who can only pay cash.

As the cities grew in size a few businessmen became wealthy and the founding fathers became wealthy too depending on what jobs they took in the cities and states, but there was simply no such thing as the many thousands of millionaires holding power like we have now.

That's my mini-history lesson. Have a good day all.

370: okay, nice fakeout. wasnt about me.

367 Barry Lyndon was excellent
great essay on it here
http://books.google.com/books?id=v040Hpa7xnoC&...

Hang in there, guys! We can do it.

Have a great day, everyone!

367: that guy was excellent as brad, but is suspect that you only like him because he knows how to do the madison.

308: testosterone poisoning

359 LOL!
My mom used to play This Little Piggie en Espanol... I can
still remember "Este Cerdito Que Al Mercada", which is a
great line to throw out when it's all the Spanish you know...

Palin, Queen of the Birthers? Makes sense to me!

364 -- I don't think anyone needs to agree with me, but I liked Barry Lyndon.

360 You can order that right here Maddy:
http://www.zazzle.com/pontius+pilate+bumpersticker...

we're all supposed to believe that the Thugs are still important

345

throw in "Barry Lyndon", Stanley Kubrick

357: i dream i braked for a galilean.

#356 - and how far have markets fallen since 2007 (the last reporting date on that site)?

Daschele - now there's a sellout

357 -- Mark I want that bumper sticker!

Oh it's been so long since I had any baby toes near me on which to play "This Little Piggy". Perhaps the caller is correct. "He said wee-wee-wee all the way home."

It's always the little piggy who cause the problems. Grrr...

#352 - agreed. They are easy to spin to the vast majority of people who cannot interpret them independently (myself included in many cases).

Steph shouldda had that shot of Rye

Barry Dennen's bumper sticker...
"Pontius is my Co-Pilate"

333 you said that the number of people with a 401k balance of over $5K is negligible. I showed you numbers that contradicted your comment and now you're pulling a Chuck Grassley and trying to change the rules.

But hey, I can still win by playing by your rules.

According to this report, 61 percent of 401ks have balances of over $10K That is double the amount you claim virtually nobody has a balance higher than.

Gay bumps - that's what the boys got from making out with Steph.

320: "I was actually in a version of Oliver. That was when I began to face the fact that acting probably wasn’t for me. I think I was just plain terrible." --- i saw that. i was wondering why oliver was actually asking for less in that version.

Bump music sounds like a mash-up with the Macarena.

#348, statistics aren't lies if you've been trained how to read them.

But citing statistics to the untrained is indeed the most pernicious kind of lie - because it's a lie with authority!

Somebody gots to get Evita off the T.

313: consider yourself well stoned. consider yourself part of the furniture.

324 maybe there has always been a ruling class but there hasn't
always been a middle class

the elite are scum they aren't playing fair they want absolute
power and they must be restrained or we will all be their serfs
which ain't the way I want to live or see this country

government exists to keep the strong from taking the weak only
now it's become an arm of the strong instead of a shield against
them. We must take the country back from the greedheads or we
are doomed

342---I am beginning to agree with Twain's quote as I age.

308: prell poisoning is never pretty.

324---I don't want to burn down Wall; St. I would just like to see then be forced to obey laws and regulations just like the rest of us do.

Oh. And tell the truth on those Truth in Lending forms. Ethics in business. that's crazy!

295: "..Barry Dennon was the longest and most boring movie I ever saw..." - you're confused. the most boring movie you ever saw was "the guns of navarone". - at least you got lots of sleep. - and you may have "barry dennon" confused with "hal lyndon".

#335 Ah, that explains the extra shipment of goat entrails and powdered monkey's testicles.

Bill Gates and 99 bums walk into a bar.

"Wow, we're all rich", the bums think. "Our average wealth is $400 million!"

#333 - *wild applause* I so wish that was said more.

Mark Twain's quote about the three kinds of lies:

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

Kevin Meaney reference! Awesome, Steff. He's one of my faves.

A little Katherine Hepburn was channeling through Momma.

335---OMG that's what we need!