LiveBlog for Wednesday, May 13, 2009
• Rev. Scotty McLennan calls in at 6:30am Pacific to talk about his new book, “Jesus Was a Liberal: Reclaiming Christianity for All.”
• Mike Lowe, former writer and graphics editor for “The Onion,” calls in at 7:30am Pacific to talk about his new book, “Thanks for the Memories, George.”
• Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) calls in at 8:30am Pacific to talk about the economy and other news of the day.
• Yesterday, the army identified the American soldier who went on a deadly rampage at an Army base in Iraq and charged him with the murder of five other U.S. service members. Sgt. John Russell, a 44-year-old Texan, has been in the military for 20 years.
• The Senate Finance Committee yesterday heard proposals on how to pay for President Obama’s proposed universal health care plan, which is expected to cost more than $1 Trillion. Among the proposals: A three-cent tax on sodas as well as other sugary drinks, including energy and sports drinks. Diet sodas would be exempt.
• A source close to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi now confirms to CNN that Pelosi was told in February 2003 by her intelligence aide that waterboarding was actually used on CIA detainee Abu Zubaydah. Pelosi reportedly didn’t object because she had not been personally briefed about it – only her aide had been told.
Tags: Abu Zubaydah, Barack Obama, Chris Van Hollen, John Russell, Mike Lowe, Nancy Pelosi, Scotty McLennan
This entry was posted on Wednesday, May 13th, 2009 at 2:38 am and is filed under liveblog. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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Good morning, you awesome Live Bloggers! Good morning, Team Steph!
I hope all is well with everyone.
Gooood morning all.
* sniff * Ah yes, the allergy season.
#2 As I was reading your post, someone in the next cubicle over sneezed. I thought, “How appropriate.” I checked the Weather Channel site… Yesterday, tree pollen count was ‘high’. However, mold spores were considered ‘moderate’.
Hi All SMS Bloggies! Only a minute to chime in here…just listened (again) to Obama mocking RNC chair Michael Steele at the WH dinner—Hilarious!
Hi shaf, SueC.
At least I hope it’s allergy. If I start feeling worse I’ll hightail it out of here. Just feels like my head’s gonna asplode. Being hypertensive cuts down a bit on the stuff you can take so I just deal with it.
Hi Rabbit,Sue,Shaf, and other magnificent SM Blogginators.
Wishing you all a fine morning.
good morning to my favorite news-sharing blogmeisters!
Pelosi has dirty hands. If we were Republicans we would defend her silence on this international crime.
’bout time:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124215896684211987.html
Obama/US Eyes Bank Pay Overhaul
It is my belief that one major reason several notable people who we expected to want the torture issue investigated are doing just the opposite for the same reason that Dick Cheney is – CYA. In Cheney’s case, he’s trying to do preemptive CYA. The others are going to be caught in their compacency about this issue.
Complacency, I meant..
Of course, every one who spoke up against it would have been branded traitorous by GW and his pack of liars and thieves..
The Worst President in Modern American History was NOT George W. Bush. It was Dick Cheney.
#8 Yes. I heard that on the radio this morning. The pay overhaul would also extend to hedge funds and other brokerages – which would blunt the argument that talent would flee the banks for other financial institutions.
Hi
Checking in, on my way to do a thing
see you later
They’re cleaning out the lunchroom fridge across my office. I’m hearing expiration dates shouted out with thick layers of disgust every 20 seconds or so.
Some of these expiration dates are 2005.
#11, moral cowardice is a crime punishable by a primary challenge.
Good Morning all
Those in MA and RI please go here please
thank you!
#14 2005? Surprised the fridge wasn’t declared a Superfund site!
I saw an article where they were looking at the snack bar in this old drive in theatre, that had gone out of business in 1993. There was a pickle jar with pickles still in it, that smelled OK and appeared edible. The wonder of preservatives!
That’s why it’s being cleaned out.
Though this corporate guy named Burke keeps saying something about how much it’s worth to the biowarfare division.
He looks strangely like Paul Reiser…
#18, and in the case of pickles, that’s the power of brine!
Hello, everyone. It is a beautiful morning here in the DC area, with the sun shining brightly. It’s a big change from all the rain we’ve been getting. I was starting to get an idea of how Noah felt.
Hope you’re all doing well. Just wanted to say hello before I hope in the shower.
And I just posted something new on my blog. Check it out at Buy and Hold Plus Blog
I’ll be back in time for Miller time and will hang with you all for about an hour.
ProducerChris and I both have something that Obama doesn’t: a degree from Arizona State. The Daily Show looked into the university’s high standards last night:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=227327&title=arizona-state-snubs-obama
The show is starting and I gotta go.
Have fun all, maybe see you at lunchtime.
Hasta, TR.
Good Morning all! Sorry for my absence yesterday! I missed ya’!
Hello everyone!
mornin’ mel!
ahhhh… hearing his voice is like a bad nightmare….not again…
Argh! Between Dubya’s middle name and Chuck Norris’ badly acted character, my 162-year provenanced Texas surname feels very badly smeared.
Shane-o…is that your masterpiece?
I like “Walker, Texas Danger”
i guess i’m most offended by the abject lack of acting skills in introducing the WMD premise. – worse than colin powell, but not as stupidly transparent as rice.
I think that Miss California needs to be stripped…and gagged…and….uh, I’ll let Jim do the rest of the squeezy stuff.
Hi Danielle! Feeling okay? Can’t stay too long because I have to run errands.
Oh, boy, back to all torture, all the time. Let it go, Steph. Let it go.
This is a can of worms we do not want to open up. Go after the right wing nutjobs, and we’ll take down a lot of our own.
Having a good day, thanks! Tired…but that’s my own fault because I stayed up too late stuck in a good book…
rush pulled off a fine advocacy of the center for science in the public interest yesterday, by reminding us that they are the folks who got MSG and coconut oil banned… and went on into incoherent whining, calling them “anorexics with a fax machine”. – when you’re dwelling on how completely rush the destruction of health, just remember that rush is NOT identical to bin laden. bin laden does not leave this world in the form of an uneducable draft dodger who distributes millions to skanks in an effort to appear “married”.
#35, your point?
We should not be a party that tolerates criminality and corruption.
I’m sorry, but I think the media is being complicit in the GOP tactic of distraction. Who cares what Pelosi knew until we prosecute those who plotted, authorized and engaged in war crimes from the Bush Admin??? Pelosi had very little power at the time and besides that, what she did even if she knew is about 1/1000th as bad as the Bush gang!
I wonder if this is why Pelosi took impeachment off the table? She was already compromised in some way…
Did anyone see Jon Stewart last night. Basically,he said why does anyone care about Ms California? He played Trump’s comment, which was basically, if she wasn’t beautiful, no one would care what she said.
We’ve made her much more important than she should be. Her inarticulate comment at the pagent should have been ignored. Now we’ve made her into a political tool of the Right. And being an opportunist, she is allowing herself to be used. We created a monster out of a mouse.
#39, absolutely. Whatever she knew, she didn’t do, and had no authority to order. Hers is the sin of the silent bystander.
35: the true issue around torture, is around torture, because in every case, the revelations keep rolling that it was done only for amusement. the substitution in sentences, of the term “torture”, with the term “technique” is a semantic implication that it is a continuation of interrogation by other means. dont ever fall for such a simple deception again. it would be appropriate at this time, for you to soak your head in a chilled bucket of nacho cheese.
Peter, I want to get health care reform and climate change done. If that means we tolerate people like Pelosi, who may have known about torture but turned a blind eye to it, so be it.
You can be pure in your ideals and get nothing done or you can accept that there are shady things going on and get things done.
Which do you want to do?
I’ve boycotted Mz. CA and the Octomom…
Hoyer! Woohoo!!
41: in a way, trump was right; i SO INCREDIBLY dont care what this wasted skank said.
#44, if there’s no rule of law, there’s no republic. I’m glad you want to repaint the nursery and put on a new roof – but the foundation is sinking and cracking.
42 It’s possible she knew things and should have been more aggresive, but it’s nowhere near what that admin did.
40 I believe that she didn’t want impeachment because she felt that that corrupt admin would just pardon each other. Examples: Libby, Iran/Contra (I know it was his dad, but that apple didn’t fall far from the tree.)
Looking forward to hearing Rev. Scotty this morning! I’ve always said – many of us have said – Jesus was a liberal!! Boy those fundamentalists do not want to hear it…
47…I agree. She’s not even that pretty even with the fake boobs. And I must defend La Jolla. Most people who are from there are not that dumb. I was born there, and UCSD is there.
Peter, do you really think the country will fall apart if there are no torture prosecutions?
Get real.
I’m more concerned about the cratering economy and the teetering banking system than whether or not someone spends time in jail for authorizing waterboarding.
52 You sound kinda pro-torture. What they did was a war crime and I’m not even sure why we discuss it like it’s optional to investigate and prosecute this.
Once again, Democrats and the corporate media are allowing the right-wing to frame the argument. Who gives a shit if Nancy Pelosi knew or not. If she knew, what could she do? Go to the complacent media? No. Write a letter? It doesn’t matter. This is the classic straw-man Who was in control of the government? Bush and his adminstration. Who had the rapt attention of the American people and the media, oh, I know, Bush and the Republicans. Who tortured in the name of America?
Wrong. Miss CA is hot.
Mel…I just think we’ve got bigger fish to fry. It’s not a priority for me, and it’s clearly not a priority for President Obama.
Does that mean Obama is pro-torture?
55: good thing for you that there are braille transcripts available.
Hiya, Bloggoes!
I have the following bee buzzing around in my flowery bonnet today (yes, I have allergies): There’s news around that Social Security and Medicare are less solvent than previously thought, due to the rotten stinking economy brought to a cliff brink near you by the rotten stinking Bush administration and their corporate cronies.
Considering that health care is expensive, do you think that its possible that (I know this is an inflammatory question, I just wanna see the responses for my own instruction) single payer health care, when our budget is such a wonder to behold (full of the results of decades of fluffy magical thinking), might be a recipe for further disaster?
Let’s say…that I’m walking down the street and I overhear some thugs in front of me talking about the fact that they might beat up on a guy. Do I have an obligation to call the cops?
Then what if they beat up the guy, but I don’t see it. Am I just as guilty?
#52, yes.
Law is 90% precedent. When we let a crime go unpunished, an executive power grab unchallenged, they become enshrined as de facto lawful.
I hate to break it to you – there will be another right-wing Republican president eventually. And as Reagan was more criminal than Nixon (because Nixon’s administration went unpunished), and Dubya worse than Reagan (because Reagan’s administration went unpunished), we have every reason to think that, if swept under the rug, Dubya’s successor will be far worse than he.
And our country can’t take a worse unitary scofflaw than Dubya and survive.
58…not if they pay for it. Single payer would get rid of literally thousand of bureaucracies at various corporations. All of those mid-level execs need to build their fiefdoms.
You’d still have bureaucracy, but it’d be one bureaucracy instead of thousands.
That will save money.
#59, if you’re a law enforcement officer, you are guilty of prior knowledge of a crime. If you’re just a regular bloke, you’re guilty in a moral sense, but not a legal one.
56 If he’s complicit in their attempts to cover up their war crimes then yes.
You deflected the question though. Do you think it’s okay to torture?
Having other problems is not a good excuse to ignore war crimes.
This isn’t just up to Obama. He’s President, not King. I think we have an obligation to prosecute if war crimes were committed PERIOD.
59: goes directly to the reliability of the intel; thou shalt escalate accordingly.
Peter, while you are entitled to your opinions, I have to laugh at them.
You really think that the country’s going to fall apart if someone doesn’t go to jail for authorizing waterboarding. In a time where it’s considered good news that only 500K jobs were destroyed in the last month, prosecuting torture is the most important thing? In a world where 45 million people can lose their houses and go bankrupt if they get sick, torture prosecutions are more important?
Are you kidding me?
In any case, it appears that the President thinks the same way as me. And I’m glad.
62 If I were a cop, then I would have some obligation, but as a private citizen who heard something *might* happen, I’m not even sure I’d be morally obligated.
Another thought to throw in this example…What if I were a cop and the thugs were my superiors?
Finally, the religious right gets hoisted on their own petard!
65: like myself, obama always IQ tests over 150; thinks like you? right extension of the bell curve, wrong end.
mel…you’ve got to understand that saying torture prosecutions are a low priority does not mean you are pro-torture. The “logic” you are using is similar to that which is used by those who say you’re an anti-semite when you simply say the Palenstinians need a place to live peacefully.
mornin’.
Tony – if we don’t go after even our own
1. we are NO BETTER than the GOP for the past 8 years
2. we condemn our soliders to fighting an emeny who will not surrender but will fight harder, longer and wilder because they will not want to be captured knowing we will or may mistreat them
more reasons when I return from taking son to work
I nice piece on the torture issue at: http://www.terrenoire.blogspot.com/ I went there for the Miss CA picture. Scroll down for that.
69 You’re still talking around the issue. I didn’t say you were pro-torture. I said you sounded that way and then asked you. You still haven’t answered.
Listen Tony, you’re not the first person I’ve discussed this with and I’ve found that after going round and round about whether or not it’s legal and/or we should prosecute, most of them finally admitted that they believe torture is sometimes necessary and acceptable.
68…so nice to see that the left is just as intolerant of differing opinions as the right.
People are stupid because they say that crazy things like the economy and jobs and climate change and health care are more important than torture prosecutions.
Whatever.
And a pissing contest about your IQ? Are you serious? Get real, man.
yesterday, thom hartmann had a guest from “www.askdrbrown.org”, a self-described bible-scholar, apparently drawn randomly from the street, who claimed (first i’ve ever heard) that ROMANS chapter 1 directly and explicitly refers to female homosexuality (what god terms “hot girl-on-girl action”). – the guest was consistently incoherent.
65 — fascist dictatorships arise in democratic countries who are under financial seige. We came frighteningly close this past decade to installing our own fascist regime. Cheney & company failed, barely, but still made it easier for the next set of thugs to go ahead and run roughshod over us.
Imagine this quote coming soon to a kitchen table near you — “Hey the police called. They’re releasing our daughter from the interment camp. Sounds like she’s got some broken bones, is severely dehydrated, and may have contracted typhus. She should never have protested in favor of stem cell research!
Hey, at least we’ve got healthcare!”
mel…only in very rare and extreme situations. Suppose we know that al Qaeda has planted a nuke in an American city, and we’ve got bin Laden.
I say make the son of a bitch talk. And tell him that if he lies to you, you’re coming back and doing it all over again until he dies from it.
Except in a situation like that, torture should not be used.
74: i wouldnt have called it a “contest”, but thanks for wrapping up the discussion that way.
78…you may have an IQ over 150, but you act like someone with an age of about, 1/30th that.
Great stuff Rev. Scotty!
Tony? seriously. your personal attacks are not welcome. your comment at #79 crosses the line, imo.
77 See what I mean? You protested about me saying you are pro-torture when you are in fact, pro-torture.
The example you site which I’ve heard before, is fictional. Folks from the intelligence community have been on the media of late saying that this never happens except in movies.
You, along with others who support torture, are defending a disgusting and completely ineffective tactics based on fictional antidotes. Experts say that you cannot count on information obtained thru torture PERIOD.
Even if it worked, why would you defend torture based on a narrow and unlikely scenerio?
76…let’s be real. We didn’t come anywhere near a fascist regime. We definitely eroded some civil liberties but we weren’t anywhere close to fascism.
We engaged in some of the things that fascists would do, such as torturing people, locking people up without trials indefinitely, and so on. But we did not come close to becoming a fascist regime.
Besides, if what you are saying is true, then it’s even more important to fix the economy so that we end the economic turmoil that can create one.
#65, I’m sorry you’re so short sighted.
Civilization is a compact; it works not because it has rules, but because most of the time, grave violations of these rules are not attempted simply because they are unthinkable. But each violation that goes unanswered gets repeated, and then becomes normative. First these violations are performed to the “other”, and then once sufficiently normative, they begin to happen to us.
The rule of law is there – especially in regards to the powerful – as a safety net for when the unthinkable becomes thinkable. We have it to restore civilization’s basic ground rules.
By not prosecuting, you’re saying the executive really is outside the rule of law. You trust that your benign dictator will do good things, things you want done, and put out of your mind what the next malevolent one will do.
Your attitude is one of short-sighted grab-bag liberalism. Good luck with that when the next Bush rolls around.
#80 Agreed. He (Rev. Scotty) is a breath of fresh air, given the intolerance of media-whoring evangelicals.
#74, so we’re intolerant because we’re vehemently disagreeing with you? I guess “tolerance” means meekly going along with your position.
#30 Dani – I came in late. Probably not – I’m on sabbatical. Ken in Cleveland, perhaps? (I’ll listen to it on the StephCast later)
#77, ah, so we see the truth comes out.
mel…there is nothing in this world where you say never. So while I would say that in almost all cases, torture is wrong, I would not say it is never justified.
By the way, torture does work. It worked for the French in Algeria, and it worked for the Brits in India.
We engaged in some of the things that fascists would do, such as torturing people, locking people up without trials indefinitely, and so on. But we did not come close to becoming a fascist regime.
You’re so fond of reading assignments, Tony, here‘s one for you.
#89, yes, torture does a wonderful job of getting people you’ve already prejudged to be guilty to confess to things.
What they confess to, well, that’s just a grab bag.
#90, the only thing that kept us was that enough people had not been acclimated to government lawlessness that they kept from going that next step.
But they went far further than Reagan and Nixon did, because Reagan made normative things that would have been outrages under Nixon, and Nixon made normative things that would have been outrages under his predecessors.
These outrages always are first tried out on “the other” before they’re brought home.
They may have been fed bad intelligence – but many of us out here in the heartland KNEW it was all bogus. They ran the arms inspectors out of Iraq way too soon. Cheney/Bush are oil men…Iraq was just sitting there filled with oil waiting for the taking, so they went on a binge, gutting the treasury, killing, etc. They are white collared criminals and should be in jail for their crimes.
Mean too Stephanie – Cheney needs to GET OFF THE STAGE!!
90…so, tell me, did the Bush administration do something like, oh, I dunna, ban the democratic party? Did we go to one party rule? Did we have a ban on protest in the streets? Did the democratic election process go out the window? Did you lose the right to petition the government for redress of your grievances? Did saying things like “Bush is a moron” or “Cheney is an ass” get you locked up?
My parents lived in a fascist state. It’s now a thriving democracy. Don’t insult those who actually lived in one by saying, oh, the United States came perilously close to becoming one.
deb…you’re right. Why the hell is anyone paying attention to Dick Cheney? Paying attention to Dick Cheney when it comes to the future of the country, or hell, even of the republican party, is like paying attention to Brett Favre when he talks about the future of the Green Bay Packers.
wow… stepped away from my desk… loving all the posts… you guys are on fire!
Caller tried to leave a turd and run… and ProducerChris called him on it! Woo Hoo!
94 — I think that the insult to people who have been under fascist control would be to blithely assume that it could never happen here.
The Chilean Fascists (Pinochet) were directly supported by the U. S. as an experiment in Milton Friedman’s economic ideas, which are the pitch-perfect way to found a fascist regime.
#97 Caller Don is unraveling!
The Romans thought Jesus was dangerous to the fabric of their society, that’s why they killed him.
Oh, God….destroys the fabric of society. And what’s wrong with relativism. Every situation is different and there is no black and white in this world. Anyone who thinks so is living in a fantasy world.
89 Worked to accomplish what? The only thing experts say torturing someone does is get them to say whatever they think you want to hear. 2 + 2 = 5
Besides that, it’s morally and legally wrong. As soon as you open the door a crack for fictional scenerios, you’ve opened the door for bad people like the Bush admin to torture for their own means.
#95 – Do you think Rush Limbaugh knows a lot of the GOP insider baseball and that’s why they all kiss his behind? He could put them all away since he was their tokoyo rose and pushed the propaganda?
and – on FOX, Newt “frankly” suggested that Pelosi should have “cut off funds” – use the Congressional power of the purse if she objected to the EIT’s (torture) — umm – she DID try – as a part of the THEN minority. They were overruled by Republicans.
The Right SO relies on short memories and general lack of information.
98 — I didn’t say it can’t happen here. It happened in Germany, which is the land of some great thinkers like Goethe. All I’m saying is that we did not even come close to fascism here in the United States.
And on that, I’m out of here. Have a good day folks.
I wish Cheney and Bush get tried in the Hague. They can be tried in absentia.
If they say that Pelosi was involved, then the justice department should investigate. They are inviting an investigation, which is good. If Pelosi gets investigated then Cheney gets investigate.
94 — I do find that the way that Republicans talk about “liberals” does indeed lean towards that outlawing you talk about. Karl Rove’s express idea was to start a 1,000 year era of conservative Republican rule. Don’t you remember the whole “Agree with us or you hate America and are seditious” rhetoric from that time? seriously, is your memory that short? Mine isn’t and that’s why I think we need to perp walk all of these bast***s, from Chimpy on down.
I am not kidding or exaggerating.
94 There’s no need to ban the other party if you can manipulate the election. And as I recall a man was arrested for calling Cheney an a-hole to his face. Around 2002 the GOP was saying thing about anyone who disagreed with the “War on Terror” giving comfort to the enemy. They listened in on people’s phone calls, outed a CIA agent whose husband dared question their lies to get us into a war…
Let’s play a little game from Mathematics called substitution.
Substitute the word “torture” with the word “assault”.
Lawyers in the White House and the “Justice” Department wrote memos that defended the assault of prisoners.
No court in America would give those attorneys a pass on for helping a client commit a crime.
Never, never defend Nancy Pelosi……..it’s Bush/Cheney et al that broke the law. It’s sickening how we’re still conditioned to respond to their framing. It’s simple….it’s not about Pelosi it’s about the law breaking torturers…….you guys are truly doing a great job…..thanks, carmen
#94, they rigged elections, they put elected officials from the other party on terrorist watch lists, they engaged in illegal spying on political opponents, they arrested people not for protesting but for planning to do so. They explicitly stated the executive’s right to set aside and ignore any legislation it wished to ignore. They lied us into a war, trusting on the public to rally around the ruling party in time of war.
So yeah, well on the way to fascism. By DEMANDING that we not hold their actual crimes (not political sins) to account, you are enabling the next one to go that next step, because you’re part of the process of making these actions normative behavior in politics.
Obama’s opinions on the matter are rapidly being overtaken by events, thank God.
The bush regime was the American version of the Nazi’s. The more power they got, the more wrong they did.
104 I remember the push to cut off funding for the war and the GOP spinning it as cutting off money to the troops.
110 Couldn’t agree more. It’s just too bad that the MSM goes along with the GOP talking points and a lot of folks are sucked in!
go rocky!
woohoo Rocky!
I hope the last guest will be told to read this. Everybody is saying the bible doesn’t say anything about this or that but few people realize the catholic church removed I think about half the bible in I think the 6th or 7th century. They took the word of God and censored it! I don’t know what the verses were that got thrown out but I don’t like it. I do think something still remains about abortion though. When Jesus himself talked about the one who would betray him when he was turned into the roman soldiers to be prosecuted. He said it would be better for him if he had never been born. Jesus knew about abortion and arrangements in heaven were probably made. Thats why it would have been BETTER to never be born. I think that means to not being born is better than living an evil life.
Yay, Rocky!
Actually, according to the Gospel account, it was the Jerusalem priesthood that saw Jesus as the threat. The Romans said “whatever”, washed their hands of him, and let the preisthood have its way.
119 It was about money.
I got quoted on the show, yeah!
Cheney – My party associates its values with those of a sex tourist and drug addict rather than that of a decorated Vietnam War veteran.
Um, the TRUST FUND IS SUPPOSED TO BE EXHAUSTED in the late 2030s!
I was supposed to be a temporary thing to accommodate the baby boomer bump; before it, and after it, SS is supposed to be pay as you go.
Jim’s impression of Cheney (non-Darth) is now a series of grunts. How appropriate!
MZ. CA – GET OFF THE STAGE!!!
#121 Good on you, RMH!
#110 – um, it’s not about “defending” Pelosi – but she was a member of the committee charged with oversight.
I hate equivocation arguments – but – it must be answered. If she did not properly exercise her oversight responsibilities – she, too, must be investigated.
The letter after a politician’s name matters not.
Mornin’, Peoples!
Doesn’t Jesus also hate liars (like Miss Calif.)?
I miss that Quickdraw McGraw. Is he related to Dr. Phil, do you think?
He brought new meaning to Bonus Room!
124 Have you ever seen ‘Lil Bush? The Cheney character says “rahrahrahrah” before and after his words. Used to crack me up because my son was 1 and couldn’t really talk, but kinda sounded like the cartoon.
#127, investigate her, fine. But doing a bad job is not a crime. It is, however, just cause for a primary challenge.
Dubliner White Cheddar
Me either Chris – swiss cheese has a funky foot odor wafting from it…
I want to know how Chris feels about Havarti
127 No, the letter doesn’t matter, but we’re allowing the party of war criminals to point the finger at the minority leader to deflect from their own behavior. The media keeps talking about what Pelosi knew instead of what Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld knew. We’re playing into their hands by allowing them to make the torture debate about Nancy Pelosi instead of the ACTUAL torturers.
I like the stinky cheese, m’self. You know what one of my favorite stinky, stinky cheeses is?
Muenster marcillat.
opening that package is kinda like opening a diaper.
But good?
mmmmmmmmmmmmm….
But doing a bad job is not a crime.
Is that not the current charge against the attorneys that wrote the torture opinions?
FEC allowed DeLay use campaign funds for his defense
Oh ya, Havarti is great too. Swiss is an acquired taste, I think.
Tony (from #71)
3. we give tactic approval for all the torture that was done
4. we give tactic approval for torture to be done to our own citizens in our custody (and if you don’t think that it will be justified that way you are wrong)
5. we condemn some generation in the furture to having to deal with this
6. we make our constitution not worth the velim it was printed on
As a secular liberal, I’m having very bad thoughts about Dick
Cheney. I need to go to confession.
Rocky Mountain High yay! for your shout out I heard it on the radio on the way home!
#136–couldn’t agree with you more. Let’s go after the perpetrators instead of the helpless bystanders (and in her minority-party position at the time, she and the rest of the Dems WERE helpless to stop the Bush/Cheney machine).
#136 – then don’t let them deflect!
Shine the light on all.
Expose ALL the info.
#140 – So is roquefort and bleu cheese – oy!
But doing a bad job is not a crime.
When you are an attorney and you have foreknowledge that a crime is going to be committed you have to report it to the proper authority!
Here’s something interesting I just saw on HuffPo…
Less than 6% off stimulus funding has reached state coffers:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/13/us/politics/13stimulus.html?_r=2&ref=us
Bantha fart!
Baby swiss is a little more mild
Well, I gotta run, folks! It’s been fun and we’re half way to SPARTA!
Hey guys, first-time poster here. Has Steph mentioned that Frangela will be a part of Oprah’s comedy show slated to be aired today? http://www.oprah.com/dated/oprahshow/oprahshow-20090506-comedy-hour
good body every morning~!
how is everyone?
What about Rocky Mountain High?
Gorgonzola….yum
Gouda is good, but Cheddar is better
#138, no, we’re accusing them of advising in bad faith with the deliberate intent to facilitate a crime.
We’re accusing Pelosi of being told selected bits of info, being told “keep your gob shut, this is classified”, and then doing too little with what knowledge she had.
Sharp, sharp cheddar
Re: earlier caller decrying marital gayness and reproductive choice as contributing to an out-of-control “anything goes” environment…
Personally, I view revealing the identity of CIA operatives, torturing prisoners and lying a country into war, all with impunity, to be more contributory to a perception that what we used to call laws are fungible.
Hey all!
hey sky!
How are you doing this morning Danielle?
155 — Gouda is a good table cheese. I like a really aged gouda. (mmmm! salt crystals!). Cheddar is also sometimes good, and once again more aged cheddars are to my taste. Cabot (surprisingly) makes about my favorite cheddars, other than the higher-quality english farmhouse blues like stilton.
For a grilled cheese, I like Maple Leaf Monterrey Jack or Asiago fresca.
here’s a message from capt… to clarify why he left the liveblog:
I asked Chris to intervene with the jerk (not ban or boot – I asked for nothing specific) – Chris replied with “if it is allowed on the radio then it is okay on the live blog” which I think is complete BS. I would never clog the blog with the details of a disagreement with Chris – so I left. That is what happened.
I asked them to delete my account. So I haven’t gotten any emails from anybody. You can give my email address to anybody anytime – I have even posted it on the LB before.
FU is out of line on the live blog and I think Chris is wrong – just yesterday he warned Dan for language (I guess Dan spelled it out?) I mean WTF?
I have been in touch with Chris about the issue – he hasn’t responded to my last three emails – UGH!
FU is hostile in my book – I have no probs with cussing or the word fuck or fuck you, but when we spend 15 hours a week on the live blog – it is like our home but Chris’ frontroom – I choose whether to be there. I never meant to upset anybody about anything – ESPECIALLY the friends I made on the LB.
So there you go. There you have it. It really isn’t that big of a dealio.
You can share this with anybody anytime – I hate that my opinion (not accepting FU) has created such interest and speculation. I left the blog to avoid that very thing. I don’t even think Chris is necessarilly wrong – we just disagree and I am fine with that.
I really hope nobody on the LB thinks any less of me for not being there. If I felt like some dumb issue was going to make me post out of character – It wasn’t a choice – I have to be me even if that makes me a lurker.
I HATE that anybody would ever think I would want ANY poster banned or bumped – That isn’t a position I would ever take. (maybe in some extreme case but not likely)
Anyhow – you also don’t have to share this or say anything to anybody – You know.
It’s all good either way.
capt’s email:
Captkjl2 @msn.com
I’m reading Jane Meyer’s book, “The Dark Side”. She completely explains the case for prosecuting Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, Addington, Yoo, Haynes and Gonzales for war crimes and treason. One cannot get through half of the book without coming to that conclusion.
If waterboarding isn’t torture, then let’s strap one of their 5 yr old granddaughters to a board and waterboard her. What? It’s no more than splashing water in her face–buttercup can handle that, can’t she? (/sarcasm)
They’d better lawyer up… that’s what cowards do.
#156 – if “bad faith” and “deliberate intent” can be proved – toss them in prison.
We ain’t there yet.
YET! – that’s why the need for investigation.
Shout out to Shane-O! Woo Hoo!
Republicans are the anti-Bo Diddley
“Who do hate? Who do ya Haaaaaaayte?”
163- thanks for the post… I miss capt!
Heya, Bloggoes! gotta go. I miss you already.
♥ (hope I got that right. I’m outta practice…)
163 – That’s unfortunate, however, I’ve read much more explicit posts on the ESPN message boards. I’m sorry Capt. feels that way. However, on-air and blog posting language are different standards. I haven’t looked at the SMS blog policy, maybe there is a limit to abusive posts. I don’t know. Still I’m sorry to see him go.
YAY Frangela!
Yes, Frangela on the Big-O! I’ve set the DVR to record.
#170
methinks capt was just upset that the rules about swearing didn’t seem to apply to Steve Piper.
I personally think the rules about swearing suck @$$.
this blog isn’t for kids anyway.
what does steph know about an acide flash back that you don’t want to relive?
That’s why Condi needs to be investigated as well. They are all complicit.
I just thought of a label for the Bush years, democratic fascism.
174 – Cue drama sting.
#175 – Yup – she needs to be investigated to see if she was complicit!
#176 – or, Evangelical Fascism?
NO, not all people were loving it. Some of us were horrified.
I got to go to work, bye all!
ooh that’s catchy
“what’s the plan in Afghanistan”
Cobra Commander isn’t real? WTF?!
nooooo stingers were given by R Charlie what’s his face … even Zia credited him
Have a good day, Rocky!
Re: Cheney’s Torture Talk Tour…
Re: “US not hit since 9/11″: Ok, but then the US wasn’t hit for 8 1/2 years after 2/26 (the first WTC bombing in 1993), either, and the Clinton Admin actually managed to successfully prosecute and imprison those responsible — without starting 2 wars, getting 4,000+ soldiers killed, killing hundreds of thousands of innocents, displacing millions. In fact, Clinton oversaw a robust economy, brought peace to the Balkans, and inspired a surge in positive international opinion towards the US.
And with Cheney/Bush falling so far short of Clinton’s success, it’s only been 7 1/2 years since 9/11, so we still have a year to go before the “kept us safe” domestic measure meets the Clinton mark (which would have been even longer had Cheney/Bush not blown-off al Qaeda warnings throughout 2001).
Re: “kept *us* safe”: Who is this “us” being evaluated? Isn’t this a ‘global’ war against terror, so shouldn’t we be considering the worldwide situation, accounting for the blowback felt by our fellow global citizens and coalition members, like those in London, Madrid, Bali and throughout Iraq and Afghanistan?
And I’m sure that many family members of the 4,000+ US military personnel killed and thousands wounded would beg to differ with Cheney’s evaluation of having been kept safe.
Finally, though, we never really talk about the real reason the US hasn’t been hit since 9/11: al Qaeda had no incentive to do so. With Cheney & Bush seemingly assisting bin Laden with his To Do list — toppling Saddam Hussein & the Baath Party in Iraq, removing US troops from Saudi Arabia, becoming ensnared in a military quagmire in a Middle Eastern country thus inspiring al Qaeda recruitment and driving the US towards bankruptcy — why would al Qaeda risk attacking the US and possibly provide a degree of justification for the overreaction of Cheney & Bush?
Much more to say, but should probably send this before the show ends.
Cheers!
BODY SLAM! Ventura rips “coward” Cheney, “hypocrite” Coleman
well that’s it for me today … gots to go to doc apt.
later gator(s)
TTFN
adios
may the force be with you
hasta la vista . . . . . baby
(too much Michael Steele?)
Good morning, and in case I don’t see ya, good afternoon, good evening, and good night!
Oooo miffed caller.
Neo-Conservatism = Facism. Simple enough.
Republican Party too far to the left? WTF?????
Methinks caller Michael is a Libertarian is disguise.
is = in
#192 Yep, he confirmed it (i.e. “I believe someone is coming to get my guns.”)
You guys are using logic & facts on Mike…it’s not going to work.
It’s like they only use one law from Leviticus to justify their homophobe stance.
#194 And yes, he said “guns” (plural). Mama, the man frightens me.
#182
almost snarfed my caffeine.
This guy is a farce.
Conservatism started with Thomas Hobbes’, “The Leviathan” which outlines a distinct opposition to checks and balances, opposition to a progressive tax system, and supports a VERY powerful government army and police force.
When modern conservatives talk about, “small government” they only mean a small safety net.
This guy might believe what he believes, but what he believes isn’t conservatism.
From Deb 112 The bush regime was the American version of the Nazi’s. The more power they got, the more wrong they did.
————————————————————–
I totally agree.
and infant that’s 7 months old? .. or in the 7th month of gestation?
So why do these gun nuts get to call themselves ‘Patriotic Americans’ when the reason they cite for having guns is the 2nd Amendment, which they interpret as saying that they need guns to keep the gov’mt under control by threatening to revolt. WTF! So by saying that they’re going to engage in TREASON and MURDER– they can call themselves PATRIOTIC?? Is it just me, or is that SERIOUSLY FQ’d up?
Shirley Jones? Posing nude? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!
One last comment Re: Dick Vader’s Torture Talk Tour, specifically Re: a quote from his Jan 4, 2009, FTN appearance, as highlighted on Tuesday night’s Rachel Maddow MSNBC program…
“Think of what would’ve happened if there *had* been an attack and we hadn’t taken any of these measures.”
On hearing this, it makes me wonder if they didn’t simply torture people because they really had no clue how to protect the country, were scared that another attack might be imminent, and wanted to be able to point to something to say they did everything they could. The actual effectiveness of the torture wouldn’t have been as important as the perception of effectiveness and of their having gone to extremes.
so is that “Reagan “”Democrat” opposed to all abortion or just late term abortion?
too bad he’s such a chicken shite that he wouldn’t stick around for a debate
Dake Hussein
didn’t Timothy McVeigh call himself a “patriotic American?”
ok, that caller was like a bad ride at a travelling carnival. He went from one topic to another. Almost like too much sugar in his breakfast this morning.
#200
caller was too upset about abortions to ask his question right.
the wholesale slaughter of pigs, chicken and bovines for food is okay. war is okay. torture is okay.
abortion baa’aa’aa’aad.
*sheeple*
*YAWN* Another right-winger who compares late-term abortion (a rarely-used procedure in the event of emergencies ONLY by the way) to torture at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib.
The abortion argument is getting so frickin’ OLD already.
THHE helgia heilgburg ads are givin me the creeps…….!
The Helgia Heilgburg ads are givin me the creeps…….!
#207/BrianMonster–and you forgot the countless deaths of Americans due to lack of healthcare or a social safety net, so they’re left to starve or die of illness or injury because they can’t afford healthcare. Apparently that’s ALSO OK with right-wingers, as long as the unborn babies are protected.
As Randi Rhodes likes to say, Republicans love the fetus, but don’t give a damn about you once you’ve LEFT the womb.
#199 – Rumsfeld and Cheney especially …..
I’ll answer Right Wing Caller #1, “What do you hate about conservative principles.”
Me: “I hate that conservatives talk BIG about principles but then abandon them when they get in power.”
Elvira tomorrow? Fun!
Hiya, bloggers
“it makes me wonder if they didn’t simply torture people because they really had no clue how to protect the country,”
No.. they tortured people because they were after expedience, not quality. They were getting good information while working through the FBI; Addington and Cheney thought it was taking too long, so they sicced the CIA on them and used reverse SERE–and that’s when the detainees clammed up.
The hair that they’re lawyered up and trying to split is something that Addington added to rewrite the law on torture. He maintains that the personnel administering the interrogations must have the intent to torture for it to be called torture. In other words, torture had to be the goal, not that they were reckless and negligent and didn’t see that they took things too far and injury/death resulted.
It’s like a scene from “Full Metal Jacket”. Very sad.
Oh get a life you loser….
miss california is fox noose’s big wet dream. Missy is about to get herself pimped by the machine.
Also, it’s obvious that when one takes professional grade pictures with a professional photographer, one signs a release to the photographer giving him permission to do as he pleases with the pictures. If she’s trying to play the nut role now over that, then she’s also a bald faced liar on top of all the other counterfeit things about her.
She believes that she can say/do anything she wants to and no one has a right to step to her about things which she willing consented to doing. She of all people should know the company line behind bearing false witness.
She’s perfect for Faux News though…
Carrie Prejean either can debate her POV in an open forum or STFU!
she will be a Fox News “news-model” within a year…
Callback to “Wessonality”!
“Waiter, there’s a Mastedon in my soup”?
That’s better than “What the *bleep* is an Aluminum Falcon?”
Don’t drink and dial!
OMG- the lips…. LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Friends don’t let friends dial drunk!
Oh SNAP! Do Not make Stephanie quit being a Clown Ass
and start answering serious questions, Mr. Venom-filled
Caller. She’ll Skool Ya Old School. Nuremberg Prosecutor
Barry Goldwater Running Mate! You want Principles I gotcher
Principles right here!
PS I’ll suck the venom out of you Steph. Please Please!
or drunk email… written word is even worse!
Tag, you’re it?
Mini-Mitt!
Thank You Mike Lowe: “Could Somebody crack a history book?
Afghani, Graveyard of Empires”
THERE
IS
NO
WINNING
IN
AFGHANISTAN
Oh this is one of his 5 sons who stayed out of the Iraq war to help daddy when the election!
215/Kendahke–the Bush/Cheney administration also tortured to get some/any kind of bogus info from the detainees tying 9/11 to Iraq, to have “evidence” to justify their illegal and unnecessary invasion for blood and oil.
Miss California is such a whiny-ass hack. Her 15 minutes should’ve been more than up already.
Yes! Palin/Prejean 2012 How’s That Workin’ Out For Ya?
Romney/Palin
Mousse and Moose-2012
#215
the one time they had good information, they could have prevented 9/11.
“What was the title of that briefing?” Ben-Veniste (former Watergate prosecutor) asked Condoleezza Rice.
the answer came eventually:
the PDB was entitled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike within U.S.”
#236 – *Matthews HAA!*
236-Mousse and Moose 2012
Funny!
something to watch during the commcercial breaks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwsDyZpy55k
(another stage trick a la moi~!)
runtime: under 2 mins
#236 Romney-Palin 2012: Who let the pit bull out? Woof Woof!
241- Love it!
#241, 236 – love me some SMS live-bloggers!
Here’s the problem with the new Conservative meme about torture and abortion. They still use the argument that a fetus is a person. What is the clinical difference between a fetus and a tumor?
Here’s the definition of a fetus: The unborn offspring from the end of the 8th week after conception (when the major structures have formed) until birth. Up until the eighth week, the developing offspring is called an embryo.
Here’s the definition of a tumor: An abnormal growth of tissue resulting from uncontrolled, progressive multiplication of cells and serving no physiological function; a neoplasm.
The bible does not address the viability of pre born material. I could easily start a religion that glorifies the tumor and anthropomorphise the growth as a viable entity. I can give them names and declare that they are a viable part of human life.
By the way, these Conservatives never point out that Nature (God) causes more miscarriages than humans conduct abortions. Are they going to legislate against God as well?
These folks never bother with supporting real humans because it requires work, commitment and money. Go figure
Dennis
I still want Jindel / Palin because of the comedy GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#244 Of course, Monty Python took the fundies’ argument a step further by saying “every spem is sacred”.
spem = sperm (sorry)
Come on, gang! Sparta is within reach!!!!
231 Mark
the only chance of winning in Afghanistan is to do what has never been done before – have a large world wide coalition go in and fight
we had that chance and Bush blew it!
Why do I always feel like Sanchez is auditioning when he calls in? Seems like a nice guy though.
yeah I’m back . I got the time wrong for the doc apt
Just popping in for Sparta!
Not there yet?
To: The Sensational Ms Stephanie Miller
Re: Elvira Mistress of the Dark’s overnight visit
Four Words: Short Sheet Her Bed
That will go perfectly with the bats on the ceiling fan.
Morning all! Yay for Randi Rhodes! She’s broadcasting from D.C., the belly of the beast
#250 I don’t know Sanchez’ background, but he does sound broadcast-ready. Who knows, he might land a gig from his contribution here.
I like what Jesse Ventura said on Larry King Live
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujv-x6wGoGA
He said “give me Dick Cheney and a waterboard and in an hour I’d have him confessing to the Sharon Tate murders.” tehehe
American troops have been in Pakistan since, well, the beginning. A lot more were based there prior to the Afghanistan invasion – but they are mostly logistics, best I know.
The is question is combat troops.
Offensive in Swat — boon or bane for Taliban?
(from Pakistan paper)
I just sent my neighbor to my house to record oprah on DVR… yey, I get to see frangela!
249 Yes Cindy thank you
O’course Bushy didn’t want to win but prolong the war,
otherwise they wouldn’t have let the T’ban have sancturaries
in the Paki Northwest Frontier Provinces… it’s more about
the oil and dope.
You can’t tell me there weren’t hundreds of C&GS School types
that didn’t know and tell exactly what was needed in Afghan
but who were ignored…
256 God Bless Jesse Ventura!
#256 I’d watch that on Pay per View. Hmmmm, another fundraiser for vets and their families (a double-bill with Sean Insanity).
#255 – didn’t mean it in a snarky way, it’s just how it sounds to me when he calls in. Maybe he is a radio pro already.
Cindy, did you make it over to Swat or nearby?
If you stand in the same place philosophically for
20 years the ground will move under your feet.
My principles have never changed. I’m for freedom,
personal responsibility, government that governs least
while still protecting the little guy from the strong
taking the weak. Fiscal responsibility in government,
AND NOT TORTURING PEOPLE! NO WAR OF AGGRESSION! NOT
KIDNAPPING PEOPLE! Habeus Corpus!
Which is why I voted for Obama.
twitter just screwed themselves over
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/twitter_puts_a_muzzle_on_your_friends_goodbye_peop.php
Oh, cut the crap. Just get some cajones and give us single-payer healthcare
#263 I didn’t take it as snarky. If I had a bit to contribute, I’d probably rehearse it (to get past any nervousness).
Moma liked Tab! hee hee. dreadful stuff.
Not to mention the fact that aspartame enriches Rumsfeld – there’s a reason right there to boycott diet soda!
Tab – What stale 3 year old soda turns to. The Bitters of soft drinks.
Good call with Rep. Chris Van Hollen. Well done, Sir!
maybe is the media televised his testiomny, someone would have actually heard it… not all of the public are C-span geeks like many of us here…
S
#255 & 263 – I may be wrong – but I think Sanchez is already on the radio in L.A. (other than SMS call-ins)
263 Sanchez is the pseudonymn of somebody, I can’t remember.
A celeb, actor, you’d know him. Anybody?
S-P
Cindy,
Thanks for the link.
BTW, everybody but Cindy, Dawn.com is a good source for news about Pakistan. It’s one of their two major national newspapers.
The other one is “The News”
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/
I prefer Dawn but read both. Pakistan has a relatively free press, fortunately.
S-P-A
If we can condemn people for profiting from pain in war – War Profiteering, we can also condemn profit from pain in the “health” “care” system.
I’ve seen Boehner. He is ORANGE!
S-P-A-R
Trashly Whorearound ad always makes me laugh
#275 He seems to know the biz (such as KTLK’s call screener’s new job with Randi). Like I said, I don’t know him, but he sounds like a good guy.
S-P-A-R-T
almost at sparta… maybe someday I’ll actually get it…
Ron – I like Dawn too … before the web exploded I read the Herald (dawn’s news mag)
Jang’s good too .. Ron do you watch Geonews? http://twitter.com/GeoNews
S-P-A-R-T-A
#286 Refresh often, Danielle. We’re almost there!
you think we can get it in under the wire?
for those on twitter copy and paste the following
Retweet this if you disagree with Twitter’s decision to hide replies to people you dont follow #fixreplies #twitterfail
10….
7…
Hey Steph, are you gonna put plastic spiders in Elvira’s bed too? How about dressing Max up in a bear outfit and having him jump on her when she’s not looking? HA HA HA. he he he…heh.
I’ve heard Sanchez’s real identity, just can’t make
that synapse snap this morn… I’ll remember after the show.
Oh! Sparta!
Sparta!
from twitter – markos (dailykos)
markosm Yo wingnuts, if Pelosi knew about the illegal wiretaps, we want to know. We don’t ignore law breaking because it comes from a Dem.
sparta!!!!
SPARTA!
294: short sheet Elvira’s bed!
#291 You mean, if I reply to a tweet of ProducerChris’, he won’t see it (because he doesn’t follow me)? That sucks!
sparta?!?!?!
nice Skyhawk!
Sparta, y’alls!
Go Sky!!!… another day for me perhaps…
from twitter
Shuster1600 GOP tea party phone effort tomorrow. They are trying to reach 30,000. Obama attracting 70,000 dems today.http://tinyurl.com/okbh53
Woo hoo, Skyhawk! You haz a Sparta! *bows*
Skyhawk swoops in for Sparta!
OH! Prescott Bush/Nazi henchman ref! I likee.
Conservative Values like murdering Union organizers,
robbing/killing workers see Ludlow Massacre
oh not more California Doofus girl whining…
It’s a good day indeed. Couldn’t have done it without you all.
Is she related to McClellon???
she assumes she would have won and that’s how she was punished
I think the silicone has gone to her brain. Call House.
and thus carrie prejean wraps herself up in Christian victimization
Let’s not forget that gay military members have faught and died for free speech too.
What a great show today! Can’t stay for the last 10 mins gotta
run to this thing… have a grate after
Still won’t own up to the fake tan will he?
LOL K-G
Boehner-quit your day job anyway.
markosm Colin Powell deputy unloads on Cheney for “destroying what’s left of Republican Party”. http://bit.ly/3FIWZ
Cindy,
I read the print Herald for years, but now only when I can get it.I think it’s all on the web.
I THINK I occasionally watched GeoTV while I was still living in Dubai, off the satellite. Three were so many channels that they kind of blur in my mind.
Is GeoTV a good one?
Perhaps that’s why he kept harping on the undercoating… he was wishing he had put some on before all the bronzer…
I imagine her grandfather would give her a whipping if he heard her.
Reminds me of the grandson of holocaust survivors I knew back at my snotty private school stating in full seriousness that the poor should be rounded up into concentration camps. I suggested he say that in earshot of his grandparents and see how hard he got whipped.
Did somebody use the word ‘leader’ in the same sentence as Boehner?
I just had am image of The Boehner wearing bronzer-stained chiffon.
No Chris…let him keep talking because if you give him enough rope, you know what they say. Maybe we should keep him on the stage afterall?
well ya’lls… I’m out for the day… have a good one!
Ew…Kristol Mess
I just can’t jump on board with the Miss California thing.
Yes, she’s a shallow-thinking, hypocritical moralizing conservative … but what’s new?
Why was she asked about the gay thing, anyway? Aren’t you supposed to ask beauty contestants if they are for or against world hunger?
Bye all! Good luck Elvira!
#326
i don’t think chiffon stains. it’s like nylon or vinyl.
Have a great day, everyone!
have a good Wednesday, peoples.
*waves*